Black Rose FAQ

If the questions and answers below don't give all the information then feel free to contact us and ask us
Don't forget to hover the mouse over anything underlined like this and a popup will appear with extra information..
If you are trying to find information on a specific aspect of caving/potholing etc visit our search page.
Trouble downloading Factsheets / Membership forms you need :

Caves and Caving Q&As

Is caving for me?: The only way to find out that is to go on a trip and find out. It is a different experience to the tourist caves with concrete floors and big electric lighting! We occasionally organise easier trips or we can arrange them specially to give novices and the curious a chance to see what its all about! The Try Caving website carries more information on the subject.
Why go caving?: It could be a different answer from caver to caver - being able to get away from it all, seeing the formations, the sporting aspect and even going to places where nobody has ever been or even seen before (unclimbed mountains have usually been seen from planes and satellites!) Have a look in the gallery section of this website and see for yourself..
What clothing and equipment do I need to go caving?: To start with to see if you like it or not: some old clothes and boots/wellies, we can provide an oversuit for you to wear and the helmet and light can be hired for a few pounds from various caving shops. If you decide caving is for you then buying a fleece undersuit (shop around and try them all out) is the next step and buying an oversuit (again, numerous types are available). From there its just a case of buying what you need - like your own light and helmet, SRT kit etc - its a bit costly to start with but once you have all the gear it does last for a while.
Also look at the Fact Sheet
SRT and Ladders - what's it all about?: Ladders were originally the only way down pitches until SRT (Single Rope Technique) appeared, SRT involves a single rope down a pitch and is by far the most common means of descending pitches nowadays. One of the big differences is that with SRT you need to be competent and look after yourself when on the rope where as ladders involve you on the ladder and the person controlling the lifeline. We do still use ladders but normally only use them on short pitches up to 10m.
Where do you go caving?: Most of our caving is in the Yorkshire Dales (and surrounding area) we do also cave in other regions like South Wales, Peak District, Mendip. We also visit mines from time to time and these can be found all over - North Pennines, North Wales etc.
Is it not dangerous?: It would be wrong to say no as there are dangers present - you just have to be aware of them and know how to recognise them and with correct techniques and good judgement caves can be safe. Just because there are dangers present doesn't mean we should avoid it - there are many dangers present in normal everyday life and we all take the risks with them.. The Cave Rescue website carries information on rescues/callouts over the last 10 years or so - it shows quite well that accidents are not as common as people think.
Aren't caves really small and body sized?: Caves come in all shapes and sizes, ranging from the body sized tubes to passages you could drive a bus down!
How deep do you go?: In this country the deepest cave in South Wales is 300m. Most of our usual caving/potholing is in the Yorkshire Dales and surrounding areas and the depth of these is about 150m, there is some good caving to be had that is less than 50m deep..
Will I get stuck, what about tight squeezes?: A lot of people do wonder if they will get stuck and most people don't! You would be surprised what your body can get through.
Do they fill to the roof with water?: A popular misconception about caves, yes there are some that are very flood prone and in sections will fill up to the roof and sump a section of passage. But there are also a number of all weather caves out there - its just a case of knowing which ones are which, this can be found out by asking members or reading guidebooks.
Why go digging, is there any point?: Good question, why spend hours, days, weeks, months visiting the same place and digging - sometimes in miserable places.. Well the drive of a caver to seek out the unknown is a strong one - finding formations, impressive passage or pitches - if the dig goes its worth it! If it doesn't, not to worry as the next one might do..

Club related Q&As

Do you go caving often?: Whilst we don't go every week, we aim to have at least one trip per month, most trips are in the Yorkshire Dales. Occasionally we might do a mid week trip. Weekends away to other caving areas are organised a few times a year - we spread them throughout the entire year.
What do I need to learn?: Once you join the club you will need to learn Ladders and SRT - if it is required we will provide training at an appropriate location for this. We also ask our members to learn some basic knots : figure of 8 loop, figure 8 on the bight, bowline, bowline on the bight and alpine butterfly - more details of these (and other) knots can be found on our knots page.
Are there any conditions of membership?: We do expect our caver members to learn some basic knots and to become competent at SRT and ladder work. We also expect all members to contribute to the success of the club, provide input and ensure the club continues to survive - we don't want freeloaders (a club is only as good as what the members make it). Information on benefits can be found on the membership pages.
Where does the club meet?: On club trips in the Yorkshire Dales we more often than not meet in Ingleton - usually in Bernies or Inglesport. Any other meeting places are usually given out with the meet details.
Why does the club not like bureaucracy?: We are a caving club - nothing more nothing less. We would much rather be out caving than sat around having meetings and doing excessive paperwork.
How come you have no committee and only a basic constitution ?: See answer above - If you think you need committees for a club to survive and to go caving we recommend you consider joining another club. Any problems arising (which is very rare) or anything which requires discussion will be dealt with by consulting everyone within the club not just a select few. We do have a basic constitution to comply with BCA membership requirements and to lay down a few basic rules but on the whole we aim to keep the club hassle free with an easy going relaxed nature.
Is the Black Rose different and on its own compared with other clubs?: Yes and no. The majority of clubs are run via a committee for the benefit of it's members, being a small club we allow all members to provide input whenever a decision needs making. We choose to be fuss-free others prefer the standard method of running a club - everyone is entitled to make their own choice on what they prefer. At the end of the day we all have a common goal regardless of how the clubs are run - to go caving, potholing, digging, photographing, etc..
I don't see foreign trips, do you not cave abroad?: Very very rare if we do. Most of our caving is in the UK, and there's plenty to go at in this country!
How come you have got a subscription fee again?: Despite various attempts at other options they failed to produce the desired results so we now have a subscription fee, which we will try to keep as low as possible to cover BCA membership, website costs and tackle etc
Does the club do any digging?: Yes, we have done some digging in the past with only very limited success and we have a few sites identified for future investigation.
What's the difference between Black Rose - Pothole and Caving - Clubs?: The Pothole club was active from the late 50s until it disbanded in the late 70s. The caving club was born in 2001 and its members have become good friends with the older members of the pothole club. The members of the pothole club organise reunion dinners every year - Geds website carries information on those reunions along with a wealth of other information.
I want to join, what should I do?: If you have looked at the about and membership pages (and read the constitution) then you can download the membership form, print it and fill it in ready for when you go on a club trip, if you can't print the form let us know and we'll bring one along to your first club trip. To organise a trip, contact us and we will provide you with details of our next trip (if you have some experience) or when a suitable trip is available (for those new to it all).
Why are there no contact details on the website; addresses, phone numbers etc?: Privacy and data protection - anyone could look up a name, address, phone number on a website and potentially abuse this information. We respect our members privacy and will not divulge any personal information unless we gain consent from the member in question.

Other Q&As

What is the problem with insurance and caving?: The problem lies with the fact we live in a compensation culture and if anyone can attribute blame on someone else for their own carelessness they will. As a result some landowners request proof of insurance before they let you on their land and into a cave - we regard this as pathetic and short sighted and it is something the club will fight against as much as possible.
Do I have to be insured, what can I do?: The BRCC from 2006 is gaining insurance, all members are required to pay the fee. Having insurance allows us to visit a number of caves/potholes in the UK where proof of insurance is required.
I'm a member of another club or want to join another club besides this one?: We do have quite a few members that are in other clubs and we are happy with the situation, we would like to promote a cooperative attitude amongst the caving community. Please note you will need to be insured by either us or your other club, either provide us or the other club with the required details - you only pay once for insurance.
I'm having trouble with this website on my browser, why?: A lot depends on the browser and how it's set up, the majority of visitors use Internet Explorer 6 and should notice no real problems. Users of other browsers will experience more problems, whilst we endeavour to resolve all problems it is not always possible due to the way in which browsers interpret the code. Check out the Technical page for more information on presently known compatibility issues.
Javascript, active content, php what is it needed for?: The website uses Javascript to hide email addresses from the spam-bots, this is to protect ourselves from the harvesters that work on the net.
PHP is used for the mini-forum and other pages in the members section.
I can't view the fact sheet, membership form or constitution, what do I do?: The three documents mentioned are stored as PDFs, to view and print them you need to get hold of the Adobe Acrobat reader, which you can download from the Adobe Website
Any questions you think are missing?: Then get in touch and let us know so we can improve this list.

Frequently Asked Questions..and all the answers